AllCoreDevs - Consensus #174

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Sound is perfect, now!

Mario is helping

https://github.com/ethereum/pm/issues/1907

is marco cutting out for anyone else?

https://github.com/ethereum/consensus-specs/pull/4558

Replying to "is marco cutting out..." Here too

Replying to "is marco cutting out..." A bit for me

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Replying to "is marco cutting out..." Yap, for me as well

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Replying to "is marco cutting out…" Networking team could do with a better network 😂

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Replying to "is marco cutting out..." Putting yourselves in the user’s shoes

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Whooo Lighthouse lfg

Replying to "is marco cutting out…" yep guys, this is how EIP-7870 actually feels

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@Marco Munizaga I can also give an update

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https://dora.blob-devnet-0.ethpandaops.io/blocks

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Replying to "https://dora.blob-de..." We currently have ~100% mev blocks 12 private blobs / 12 public blobs (can increase further) We have 20 clients - 10 clients support partial messages Everyone is up to head, everyone seems to have close to every other peers - full mesh

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https://github.com/ethereum/beacon-metrics/pull/21

I’d encourage everyone to have an opt in flag, not an opt out. And once well tested, enable it by default (cc lighthouse)

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I support doing this asap.

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we're targetting it

We did publish a new release, with new specs for devnet-0: https://github.com/ethereum/consensus-specs/releases/tag/v1.7.0-alpha.2

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Lodestar is still targeting end of this month

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Link to what potuz is talking about: https://github.com/ethereum/consensus-specs/pull/4897

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Replying to "Link to what potuz i..." Also see: https://discord.com/channels/595666850260713488/874767108809031740/1468323583548723282

Replying to "Link to what potuz i..." I think caching deposit signature verifications is reasonable, but I could be wrong.

ICYMI, we just shipped this: https://gloas.ethp2p.dev simulates the separation, and will be updated soon to add BALs, and deadline analysis based on actual network activity

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Replying to "ICYMI, we just shipp..." This is super cool 🔥 one quick question, why are the raw/wire sizes different between fulu and gloas? [Full message cannot be displayed on this version]

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Replying to "ICYMI, we just shipp..." For example, 240/238 for fulu and 240/235 for gloas.

It would be better to not normalize the bars, so that we can easily see the differences between slots

Replying to "ICYMI, we just shi..." Looks great! An arrow to move forward/backward among slots easily would be great.

@Francesco I want to merge this https://github.com/ethereum/consensus-specs/pull/4884 :)

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https://ethereum-magicians.org/tag/hegota

Replying to "It would be better t…" AFAIK the max bar width is the max of what’s displayed in the view (so it’s already relative). Are you seeing something different?

Replying to "ICYMI, we just shipp..." is ratio sign hardcoded to be - ? [Full message cannot be displayed on this version]

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Replying to "ICYMI, we just shipp..." Seems the first two should be positive, not negative

I think we have broad consensus on prioritizing CR in H*. I am not super deep in the weeds on the specifics of the FOCIL mechanism - how much consensus is there around this specifically being the right approach? Is this something that needs more discussion? If so, would we do that before or after selecting it as headliner?

Replying to "I think we have broa..." I think I remember some skepticism by @Toni Wahrstätter for example?

Replying to "I think we have broa..." I do not think there is any alternative mechanism proposed

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Replying to "ICYMI, we just shipp…" Hmm good find, this looks like a bug.

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Replying to "ICYMI, we just shipp…" Should be fixed shortly!

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Replying to "I think we have broa..." yes I just want to confirm we actually think it’s the right thing to do. My assumption is that the answer is yes, but important to be certain about this.

Replying to "I think we have broa..." Do you mean whether FOCIL as a whole is the right specific approach or whether some of the specifics of FOCIL should be changed like exact enforcement rules of the IL and size etc

Replying to "I think we have broa..." @Julian Ma FOCIL as a whole - adjustments can always be made post headliner selection

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@Ansgar Dietrichs I don’t want to speak for Toni but I’d say some critics were mostly around prioritizing CR/FOCIL for H* And maybe the conditional/unconditional property (but it’s more of a FOCIL parameter)

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Replying to "[Full message cannot be displayed on this version]" Yeah agree, it feels like the majority is for focil and this is what we should then go for as a headliner 👍🏼

Replying to "I think we have broa…" from my convos with optimistic rollups in the context of reducing the challenge period, focil is not seen as a blocker but rather other things mainly related to networking or unknown bugs (concerns mainly coming from offchain labs). i’d love to have a better economic model to understand benefits in terms of economic advantage, mainly in terms of additional cost to attacker to bribe to miss slots (or the IL committee). as a comparison, 6s slots increase the attacker cost by 2x, not sure if FOCIL is more or less

Replying to "[Full message cannot be displayed on this version]" Agree with ansgar here though

Replying to "I think we have broa..." I’m not aware of any other mechanism. The big property FOCIL does not give is CR for MEV txs. The proposed mechanisms for that - multiple concurrent proposers, explored mostly for e.g. Solana - seem to be converging on being very very similar to the FOCIL architecture

https://ethereum-magicians.org/t/hegota-headliner-proposal-focil-eip-7805/27604 In the proposal btw we mentioned the tradeoffs (and the critics) explicitly

Replying to "I think we have broa..." There’s quite of bit of consensus in MEV research that FOCIL is a pretty weak design. Worse than unconditional ILs and much worse than some other less fleshed out designs. But the impact on builders is very little. So we’re not blocking.

Replying to "[Full message cannot be displayed on this version]" Should now also be considered in light of AA or encrypted mempools as potential EL headliners

Replying to "I think we have broa..." @DA | Flashbots which other less fleshed out designs do you refer to?

FOCIL!

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yes sounds like in the comments as well that people have high confidence in FOCIL the specific mechanism already

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Replying to "I think we have broa..." @Julian Ma some form of splitting auctions into many auctions to have multiple builders construct single blocks.

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Replying to "I think we have broa..." There’s less fleshed out and there’s “people have been talking about this stuff for years without anything implementable coming out of it”

I personally think we’d pretty clearly be in a place to make a decision today already, but also fine to wait 2 weeks

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Replying to "It would be better..." I meant the main bar, the ones below are not normalized, so they are good. But every time the main bar is refreshed we need to look at the number to understand. Is a detail, but I thought it could help.

Replying to "I think we have broa..." Imho we should very much consider having the design be unconditional for now, everything else can hopefully be built in the future from the foundation of multiple contributions to the building process

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//eprint.iacr.org/2025/1772 It’s basically FOCIL infra + some small rule changes + potentially encryption That is to say, if we do FOCIL, we could extend it into MCP. FOCIL is a necessary step for it

bye!

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Replying to "I think we have broa..." @Julian Ma let’s jam in our call next week

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