Encrypt The Mempool #002

gmgm

HI

👋

Pk is working on a builder for epbs depending on the timing we could consider building on top of that

Replying to "Pk is working on a b…" https://github.com/ethpandaops/buildoor

Practically there are definitely ways to interleave plaint text and encrypted txns (this is part of the encrypted frame txn design I published) https://ethresear.ch/t/encrypted-frame-transactions/24440

Replying to "Practically there ar..." This doesn’t change what Anders is saying about needing to use onchain searching

yes, but is it meaningful if their order was committed already prior to reveal?

Well it avoids competition for doing the 1 backrun at the end of all encrypted txns

What are the costs and benefits in your opinion?

(Interleaved between separate buckets)

if they could interleave txs they could signal the other ones on how to branch isn't it? you'd always want to be committed on one of the encrypted one and then reserve the right to execute it or not or pick branch of execution by interleaving the trigger.

Replying to "if they could interl..." The idea would be to commit to both plain and encrypted txns at the exact same time (if even if they are interleaved)

Replying to "if they could interl..." as long as the full ordering is committed that could work.

Reacted to "as long as the full ..." with 👍

I mean you could have interleaved txs in soispoke's design also for Lucid, but with the difference that essentially the builder only commits to the ordering (but WHICH encrypted transactions have to go through is still determined by a FOCIL-like mechanism)

Replying to "I mean you could hav..." Yes that’s the difference, which to be fair is a big one (because it changes the way ePBS commits to contents/ordering) but I think it’s worth considering

is it me or Anders is the only one I can't hear?

Replying to "is it me or Anders i..." I can hear

Replying to "if they could interl..." ePBS committing to something a little looser than a stateroot seems like a powerful unlock

Replying to "if they could interl..." I agree

Replying to "if they could interl..." how is the commitment going to be? the bid sends the ordering?

Replying to "if they could interl..." But just not something to take lightly

Replying to "if they could interl..." @Potuz yes

Replying to "if they could interl..." In the figure above you just have tx_ordering_root in the bid

Yeah I agree, frame txns cleany separate validation and execution which is great for 1 slot but weird to think about for 2 slots

Can’t we just have a sidecar to a ticket inside a frame tx

Already FOCIL kinda kills shorter slots anyway

Replying to "Already FOCIL kinda ..." No I don’t think it does!

Replying to "Already FOCIL kinda ..." Probably not the right breakout room but happy to chat more about this

Replying to "Already FOCIL kinda ..." The tldr is: just do a separate BAL deadline

Replying to "Already FOCIL kinda ..." That reveals it earlier

Replying to "Already FOCIL kinda ..." I think you guys aren't equally afraid as I am with split views. Already ePBS is borderline crazy timing :)

Replying to "Already FOCIL kinda ..." Haha ok then let’s frame it as ePBS kills shorter slots 🙂

Replying to "Already FOCIL kinda ..." All the designs that are being thrown for encrypted txs seem quite impossible to me from the forkchoice perspective

Replying to "Already FOCIL kinda ..." with 12 seconds even

Replying to "Already FOCIL kinda ..." Ok yeah tbh I don’t have a good view on how much time it would take

Replying to "Already FOCIL kinda ..." To release keys etc

Replying to "Already FOCIL kinda ..." ssf bro, 12 seconds are fine with instant finality

Replying to "Already FOCIL kinda ..." 3SF is more the vibe these days (but still very nice)

Replying to "Already FOCIL kinda ..." gotta jump meetings, a pleasure seing y'all

I have to go too, thanks for the discussion!