PQ Transaction Signatures #007
Transcript
- alan xu
https://github.com/firedancer-io/firedancer/pull/9446 Looks like Solana has chosen falcon for PQTS, what about ethereum?
- Nico C
I will do less than 15 all good !
- Antonio Sanso
Reacted to "I will do less than ..." with 👍
- Jeevan Siddharth
In ECDSA mode what happens if a txn got reverted , do we rotate the key as first step regardless ? , since now we have txn history of that key right ?
- Matteo Vena | Riva Labs
- alan xu
Reacted to "https://github.com/R..." with 👍
- Ooia oo [OKX]
Reacted to https://github.com/R... with "👍"
- Benedikt Wagner
@Nico C for security proofs in the context of grinding, you may look into our aborting RO framework (designed for the XMSS signatures on the CL): https://eprint.iacr.org/2026/016.pdf
- Miha Stopar
Did you perhaps think about what could be a (PQ) SNARK to be used for this signature scheme?
- Benedikt Wagner
Replying to "Did you perhaps thin..." I think this is for the EL, so why do we need a SNARK for it?
- Miha Stopar
Replying to "Did you perhaps thin..." In general, I am looking for a PQ signature scheme with PQ snark with efficient on-chain verifier for a PSE project.
- Nico C
- Nico C
- Nico C
https://github.com/nconsigny/sphincs-ethereum-app/tree/sphincs-c11
- Nico C
Reacted to "@Nico C for securi..." with 👍
- Nico C
- Nico C
I will open two ethresearch blogpost (one for SPHINCS- and one for JARDIN). Just waiting on some feedback but most of it are already available in the repos
- Antonio Sanso
Reacted to "I will open two ethr..." with ❤️
- Ooia oo [OKX]
Replying to "Did you perhaps thin..." I guess there is another use case for high value wallets. Where signature is ideally multisig/mpc-ish (or anyways where u can separate the storage key material completely)
- Ooia oo [OKX]
Reacted to I will open two ethr... with "❤️"
- Ankita Virani
Reacted to "I will open two ethr..." with ❤️
- Antonio Sanso
Replying to "https://github.com/f..." It seems the direction is going toward hash based and dilithium
- Matteo Vena | Riva Labs
Once the EOA's classical key is recovered by a CRQC, what stops the attacker from signing a fresh EIP-7702 authorization with it and re-delegating the EOA to a contract they control?
- Ottie | Wonderland
Reacted to "I will open two et..." with ❤️
- Ooia oo [OKX]
Multi-proving technqiues might be able to reduce computation required for the zkproof But then u need techniques to prevent collusion 😭
- Lumi | Wonderland
ty everyone!
- Ottie | Wonderland
Thanks everyone!
Call summary
Targets
- •Next PQTS breakout call in two weeks - 01:09:10
Highlights
- Jardin Design:
- ·JARDIN: Hybrid stateless/stateful design combining SPHINCS- with FORS few-time signatures - 00:44:51
- ·Type 1 (stateless): 400K gas, 6KB signature; Type 2 (stateful): 170K gas, 128 transactions per lane - 00:46:53
- ·Ledger implementation working: 3-second compact signing, 45-second stateful signing - 00:53:19
- ·FORS prevents catastrophic key reuse from fault injection/state rollback attacks - 00:49:22
- Sphinx Variants:
- ·NIST published SPHINCS- variant (2^24 signatures) two weeks ago for firmware signing - 00:39:16
- ·SPHINCS- SHA-2 variant: 142K gas pure verify, FIPS-compliant path for institutions - 00:41:27
- ·Hardware constraint: SPHINCS- requires HSM (1-2 min signing), not hardware wallet compatible - 00:42:59
- Zk Proof Approach:
- ·Longfow ZK proving: 87ms client-side, hides public key via zero-knowledge ECDSA proof - 01:01:11
- ·Current implementation: ~2M gas, 20KB proofs; optimizations in progress (column reduction, designated verifier) - 01:03:41
- ·EIP-7702 delegation protects assets post-key-exposure by requiring ZK proof for withdrawals - 01:04:43
- Ephemeral Keys Implementation:
- ·Riva Labs demo: NiceTry wallet supports ECDSA and WOTS modes with rotation - 00:17:04
- ·WOTS mode: 93K gas validation, 460-byte signatures, quantum-safe by design - 00:24:41
- ·Live demo: DeFi interaction (Lido staking) working on testnet with key rotation - 00:28:19
- ·WOTS backup signers address transaction failure scenarios (wrong nonce, gas limits) - 00:31:25
Action Items
- •Nico C - Publish ETH Research posts for SPHINCS- and JARDIN designs - 00:59:03
- •All teams - Provide feedback on Mahdi's ZK proof approach via ETH Research thread - 01:08:44