L1-zkEVM Breakout #001
Transcript
- Yassine Ferhane
GM
- Gary Schulte
lol
- Manu
GM!
- Justin Traglia
Gm
- Ladislaus
gm folks
- Kevaundray Wedderburn
Gm
- James Zaki
Gm
- Andrés
gmgm
- cody
Reacted to "Gm" with 👋
- Marius van der Wijden
Historical breakout room lets goo
- Luca Donno | L2BEAT
gmgm
- Alex Hicks
going to be shipped once the project is scheduled to be shipped? :D
- Luca Donno | L2BEAT
Reacted to "Historical breakout ..." with 🚀
- Gary Schulte
Reacted to "Historical breakout ..." with 🚀
- Ladislaus
planning doc https://github.com/eth-act/planning/blob/main/projects.md
- Ladislaus
+ agenda for this call https://github.com/ethereum/pm/issues/1900
- Alex Hicks
also ethproofs at ethcc!
- Will Corcoran
Reacted to "also ethproofs at et..." with 🔥
- Will Corcoran
Replying to "also ethproofs at et..." register here: https://luma.com/beast_mode
- Gary Schulte
Reacted to "also ethproofs at et..." with 🔥
- Ladislaus
Hat auf "Historical breakout ..." mit 🚀 reagiert
- Manu
Reacted to "also ethproofs at et..." with 🔥
- Will Corcoran
Nice overview, @Kevaundray Wedderburn !
- Kamil Salakhiev
what is the expected size of zkvm proofs?
- Jordi - ZisK
Replying to "also ethproofs at et..." Is there any incentive mechanism for provers?
- Luca Donno | L2BEAT
Reacted to "Nice overview, @Keva..." with ➕
- James Zaki
Reacted to "Nice overview, @Ke..." with ➕
- Justin Traglia
What do you expect the avg proof verification time to be?
- the daycare
D
- david kim
Can you share more on the part where you mentioned the attester verifying the zk proof is similar to replaying it?
- Gary Schulte
Reacted to "sorry baby just came..." with 😆
- Manu
Reacted to "sorry baby just came..." with 😆
- Ladislaus
Hat auf "sorry baby just came..." mit 😆 reagiert
- Alexandre Belling
Is there a spec for the guest program other than the exec-spec?
- Justin Traglia
Reacted to "sorry baby just came..." with 😆
- Alexandre Belling
Replying to "Is there a spec for ..." Namely, what the input are and their format and what the output must be exactly
- Gary Schulte
Reacted to "Nice overview, @Keva..." with ➕
- Emiliano | Boundless
Reacted to "Nice overview, @Ke..." with ➕
- Will Corcoran
Replying to "What do you expect t..." miliseconds, I believe
- Gary Schulte
Reacted to "Namely, what the inp..." with ➕
- Gary Schulte
Replying to "Is there a spec for ..." I haven’t been able to find output spec
- Kevaundray Wedderburn
Replying to "Can you share more o..." I can give some link on discord, but roughly it is because zkVMs provide a proof of execution
- Kevaundray Wedderburn
Replying to "Is there a spec for ..." We are working with the STEEL team to get this into their specs
- Alexandre Belling
Reacted to "We are working with ..." with ❤️
- Emiliano | Boundless
Reacted to "We are working wit..." with ❤️
- Kevaundray Wedderburn
Replying to "Is there a spec for ..." Currently we have the most “updated” API here if you are interested: https://github.com/eth-act/ere-guests/tree/main/crates/stateless-validator-reth/src
- Kevaundray Wedderburn
Replying to "Is there a spec for ..." Happy to take this to discord to discuss further!
- Kevaundray Wedderburn
Reacted to "miliseconds, I belie..." with 👍
- david kim
Replying to "Can you share more o..." That would be great. Look forward.
- Yi Sun
Is there a link to the spec for EIP-8025? The EIP page seems mostly empty at the moment.
- Emiliano | Boundless
Reacted to "Is there a link to..." with 👍
- Manu
Replying to "Is there a link to t..." https://github.com/ethereum/consensus-specs/tree/master/specs/_features/eip8025
- Alexandre Belling
Reacted to "Happy to take this t..." with 👍
- Justin Traglia
Reacted to "https://github.com/e..." with 👍
- Kevaundray Wedderburn
Reacted to "https://github.com/e..." with 👍
- ignacio
Project, 1, 2 and 6 slides link (https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1WPMCW63Bq6ybbUa0BW85Qz6uZ0ZCHIDAN23j-nTWxuc/edit?usp=drive_link )
- Alexandre Belling
Regarding autoprecompiles enablement (or any static code analysis effort). Would it be realistic to require quest programs to provide basic-block annotations?
- Leo Alt [powdr]
In my experience it shouldn't be needed (in the specific case of current autoprecompiles)
- Kevaundray Wedderburn
Reacted to "In my experience it ..." with 👍
- Guillaume
Reacted to "In my experience it ..." with 👍
- Gary Schulte
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- Gary Schulte
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- Justin Traglia
I didn’t quite understand why validators re-sign proofs, but I will follow up later 🙂
- Francesco Risitano
https://frisitano.github.io/slides/presentations/optional-proofs/index.html
- Justin Traglia
Reacted to "https://frisitano.gi..." with 🙏
- Fara Woolf
Reacted to "https://frisitano.gi..." with 🙏
- Manu
Sorry I never shared my screen on Zoom, I had to restart zoom to enable it. My slides: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1oteBK4ZWb3M2VKhReZWahPs_sKVwRAxB0KT_I7cZOK0/edit?slide=id.g273f645140f_0_5#slide=id.g273f645140f_0_5
- Ladislaus
Hat auf "Sorry I never shared..." mit 🙏 reagiert
- David Dada
Reacted to "Sorry I never shar..." with 👍
- Kevaundray Wedderburn
Reacted to "https://frisitano.gi..." with 🙏
- Kevaundray Wedderburn
Reacted to "Sorry I never shared..." with 🙏
- Kevaundray Wedderburn
Reacted to "Sorry I never shared..." with 👍
- Justin Traglia
We should consider integrating zkboost-client into CL clients.
- Justin Traglia
Replying to "We should consider i..." Can chat about this async.
- Justin Traglia
So we don’t need another 3rd party piece of software.
- Kevaundray Wedderburn
Replying to "We should consider i..." I think for verification it makes a lot of sense
- Francesco Risitano
@Justin Traglia the idea is that a validator A can equivocate. They can send an invalid proof to node B and send a valid proof to node C. Node B will now reject all proofs from Validator A so even if node C forwards the valid proof to node B they will reject it. Therefore there is a discrepancy / lack of consensus on what proofs are valid.
- Kevaundray Wedderburn
Reacted to "So we don’t need ano..." with 👍
- Han Jian
Project 5 slide https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/11-h-h2e1dEAvKO-Ei5yStEi5VtOjKegv8w_bSN7ZNuY/edit?slide=id.p#slide=id.p
- Han Jian
Reacted to "So we don’t need ano..." with 👍
- Han Jian
Reacted to "I think for verifica..." with 👍
- Justin Traglia
Reacted to "@Justin Traglia the ..." with 👀
- Ladislaus
Hat auf "Project 5 slide http..." mit 🙏 reagiert
- Manu
Reacted to "I think for verifica..." with 👍
- Emiliano | Boundless
We are happy to provide support here: on the choice of GPUs/tuning clusters as well for scaling providing capacity with Boundless network.
- Luca Donno | L2BEAT
Reacted to "We are happy to prov..." with ❤️
- Kevaundray Wedderburn
Reacted to "We are happy to prov..." with ❤️
- Kevaundray Wedderburn
Reacted to "Project 5 slide http..." with 🙏
- Kevaundray Wedderburn
Reacted to "@Justin Traglia the ..." with 👀
- Stefan Starflinger
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/12SR4cTiDJHAZIkUZTvEim9ejlqRkrQ8R6FKXD-F-ivI/edit?usp=sharing
- Yi Sun
How do we envision the HW usage ramping over time as new GPUs are released?
- Guillaume
who has access to these clusters ?
- Stefan Starflinger
Replying to "How do we envision t..." What do you refer to with usage, how well zkEVM utilizes the GPU compute resources?
- Ladislaus
https://zkevm.ethereum.foundation/blog/cryptography-research-update
- Kevaundray Wedderburn
Replying to "who has access to th..." Currently it will be pandaOPs + EF zkEVM team
- Yi Sun
Replying to "How do we envision t..." E.g. would we move to 6090 when released
- Stefan Starflinger
Replying to "How do we envision t..." I assume new GPUs will always be around 10-10% more efficient and it would make sense over time to replace old hardware with new hardware.
- Stefan Starflinger
Replying to "How do we envision t..." 10-20*
- George Kadianakis
https://zkevm.ethereum.foundation/blog/cryptography-research-update
- George Kadianakis
Reacted to "https://zkevm.ethe..." with 🔥
- Kevaundray Wedderburn
Reacted to "https://zkevm.ethere..." with ❤️
- Ladislaus
Hat auf "https://zkevm.ethere..." mit ❤️ reagiert
- Alex Hicks
Sharing my slides in advance: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1sbpbHLyT4F3E76w9JNRbY1rs5cPaCtzfL5EoXEFYbTA/edit?usp=sharing
- Justin Traglia
Replying to "@Justin Traglia the ..." Hmm I see. This is a problem because provers cannot currently be slashed. Alternatively, we could allow/verify proofs from other peers if the proof is different, even if you received a bad proof before. There’s some level of trust that peers have successfully verified before forwarding. I’m a little worried that having everyone re-sign a 300KiB message will be a waste of resources.
- Francesco Risitano
Replying to "@Justin Traglia the ..." Is the message size significant? I would assume you just sign a root?
- Manu
Replying to "We should consider i..." Ideally the BN should call a lib for the verification, like done with the KZG lib.
- Justin Traglia
Replying to "@Justin Traglia the ..." Oh, is that it? Maybe that’s not so bad.
- Justin Traglia
Replying to "We should consider i..." I agree.
- Francesco Risitano
Replying to "We should consider i..." Yeah I think we can integrate proof verification into the proof engine
- Kevaundray Wedderburn
Replying to "We should consider i..." Yeah I agree, right now its easier to have this docker for ease of development and versioning
- Francesco Risitano
Replying to "@Justin Traglia the ..." Yes thats how we’ve implemented it in lighthouse.
- Justin Traglia
Reacted to "Yes thats how we’ve ..." with 👍
- James Zaki
Reacted to "What do you refer ..." with ➕
- Francesco Risitano
Reacted to "Yeah I agree, right ..." with 👍
- Kevaundray Wedderburn
Reacted to "Yes thats how we’ve ..." with 👍
- Emiliano | Boundless
have to drop. great presentations and keep going. stefan lmk if you need any support on the hw side of things, feel free to reachout on telegram: emilianonbonassi or email: emiliano@boundless.network happy hacking!
- Kevaundray Wedderburn
Reacted to "have to drop. great ..." with ❤️
- Gary Schulte
if a guest program team is not ready to be on ethproofs yet, does it make sense to sign up ahead of time?
- Fara Woolf
- ignacio
Reacted to "have to drop. great ..." with ❤️
- Will Corcoran
Replying to "if a guest program t..." Which guest?
- Ladislaus
Hat auf "https://staging--eth..." mit 🙏 reagiert
- Gary Schulte
Replying to "if a guest program t..." as-yet-unnamed zig based guest from besu team
- Will Corcoran
Replying to "if a guest program t..." Noice :_
Call summary
Targets
- •Glamsterdam - optional proofs launch target - 00:09:18
- •End of February - SoundCalc milestone 1 deadline - 01:04:59
- •Before Glamsterdam - RISC-V circuit verification for all major ZKVMs - 01:15:43
Decisions
- •Optional proofs use K-of-N validator attestation without mandatory proving - 00:11:18
- •Validators re-sign proofs to prevent equivocation consensus issues - 00:49:41
- •Proof verification integrated into CL clients, not external dependency - 01:12:19
Highlights
- Organizational:
- ·Stateless Summit April 1st at ETHCC Cannes - 00:09:31
- ·Async discussion on ETH R&D Discord L1ZKVM channels - 00:10:12
- Project Updates:
- ·Execution witness standardization in progress with STEEL team - 00:19:51
- ·Guest program includes engine API validation, EIP-8142 login blobs - 00:28:20
- ·ZKVM interface standards v0 released; C APIs for precompiles/I.O - 00:31:41
- ·Consensus layer: new payload request root abstraction for proofs - 00:41:14
- ·Lighthouse implementation: proof engine, gossip, validator service complete - 00:54:53
- ·Prysm integration adapting to latest EIP-8025 spec - 00:56:26
- ·Array integrates multiple ZKVMs; ZKBoost provides CL proof engine - 00:58:12
- ·Hardware: DIY 16-GPU cluster $570k/3yr vs $1.5M+ cloud rental - 01:02:59
- Security And Testing:
- ·ZKVM security sprint: 128-bit security target by end of year - 01:04:22
- ·Milestone 1 (end Feb): SoundCalc integration including lookup segments - 01:04:59
- ·RISC-V circuit verification complete for SP1, OpenVM; memory consistency pending - 01:13:02
- ·Threat model, hardware requirements documentation in progress - 01:06:47
- Benchmarking And Metrics:
- ·Proof size: 128KB best case, 300KB target, up to 1MB current - 00:18:12
- ·Proof verification: 70-100ms average time - 00:19:22
- ·ETHProofs staging app live for ZKVM onboarding and metrics - 01:22:19
- Fork Status And Schedule:
- ·Targeting optional proofs for Glamsterdam; EPBS blocker - 00:09:04
- ·Monthly breakout calls: 2nd Wednesday, 3pm UTC - 00:09:27
Action Items
- •STEEL team, guest program teams - Spec guest program inputs/outputs in STEEL execution specs - 00:20:42
- •ZKVM teams - Integrate inner segment lookups into SoundCalc by end of February - 01:04:59
- •Cryptography team, ZKVM teams - Complete ZKVM architecture white paper documentation (iterative milestones) - 01:05:14
Key decisions
Optional proofs use K-of-N validator attestation without mandatory proving
Related to Glamsterdam - optional proofs launch targetValidators re-sign proofs to prevent equivocation consensus issues
Security measure to prevent equivocation consensus issuesProof verification integrated into CL clients, not external dependency
To improve performance and reduce dependencies
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